Myth busting the SU-30 etc… ( wargames analysis)

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ATFSCrash	Myth busting the SU-30 etc… ( wargames analysis)	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1348 (Wed, 5-Nov-08 17:45:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Tags : None Not that wargames are entirely accurate like many seem to think. Though they can be useful and thought provoking. New working links Indo-US Red Flag Air Force Exercise Lecture 2008 Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKEa-R37PeU Indo-US Red Flag Air Force Exercise Lecture 2008 Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ibgAQ7lv0w Edit: links changed. The individual that posted the original linked videos removed the videos; thanks to the harassment of flanker fanatics (flamers, trolls, haters) and possible security concerns. SPANKYamerican "I find the durex ones i got in my room aren't wide enough actually. it squeezes me so much that the mr. goes down.! " Shakobe88 "anything around 6 inches in girth is going to have problems with a magnum (not XL) let alone a regular condom.." You're obviously are trying to compensate for your own lack of endowment, by obviously hyping your size. You are exhibiting classic Freudian psychosis. In any case you're pinheads. ;) If you really have problems, it's probably from spanking yourself too much. ;) Kid using a regular condom on his head (which I would estimate to be about 20 inches of girth). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L42SId1XCd4 Last Edited By: ATFSCrash Fri, 7-Nov-08 12:58:22. Edited 1 time.
LeoJr		#1	[-]
Posts: 8521 (Fri, 7-Nov-08 19:05:10) Mod Team Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Eh, good bits of info. I was particularly interested in what he said about fighting in an F-15 vs an F-22 compared to vs Su-30MKI. It all rings pretty true.
nevidimka		#2	[-]
Posts: 1533 (Tue, 18-Nov-08 16:59:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Haha.. I love it how it finds its way here, and creates a negative impression on the Su 30. Thing is regarding that lecture is, there are errors in the US air force personnel's lecture, and it discounts the situation under how the Indians deployed to the US for the exercise. But 1 thing is finally clear though , the Flanker series beats the US teen series planes hands down.
LeoJr		#3	[-]
Posts: 8525 (Tue, 18-Nov-08 19:39:41) Mod Team Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	How does it create a negative impression on the SU-30? The guy said the only reason they were able to defeat them with F-15s/16s in most cases was the fact the Su-30 is still new and the Indians have yet to completely master its advantages and disadvantages.
nevidimka		#4	[-]
Posts: 1534 (Wed, 19-Nov-08 13:02:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	In regards to the engines, the take off time, the tvc, and losing engagements, etc2.
the mastiff		#5	[-]
Posts: 4345 (Wed, 19-Nov-08 17:47:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Nevidimika, if you saw the you tube videos as an attack on the MKI than I'd suggest your insecurities are showing through. Likewise many, many more flanker fans, Indian AF fans etc. Supposedly the IAF even protested. http://www.expressbuzz.co...Name=pWehHe7IsSU=&SEO= Note the comments from the person involved who originally posted the videos , then took them down. Lots of sillyness, and insecurity shown over this one. No mention of the reported poor performance in the other areas they had, such as being shot down in disproportionate numbers by ground to air simulaters etc. The bottom line seems to be "take it back or it will affect the possibility of future sales" . Kind of like taking your marbles and going home when someone says something you dislike. On the other hand the articles crowing about how great the IAF did against the F15's in India must be correct, eh? I'd hate to be so insecure that a you tube video starts affecting national policy. One that was pretty complimentary actually. Joe ------------------------- "A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800 Last Edited By: the mastiff Wed, 19-Nov-08 17:51:50. Edited 1 times.
meley	su-30	#6	[-]
Posts: 45 (Wed, 19-Nov-08 18:03:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Did this really surprise anyone about the flanker . We knew all along that if everything was equal it could beaten by the f-15 and f-16
meley	su-30	#7	[-]
Posts: 45 (Wed, 19-Nov-08 18:03:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Did this really surprise anyone about the flanker . We knew all along that if everything was equal it could beaten by the f-15 and f-16
nevidimka		#8	[-]
Posts: 1535 (Thu, 20-Nov-08 14:41:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	the mastiff wrote: Nevidimika, if you saw the you tube videos as an attack on the MKI than I'd suggest your insecurities are showing through. Likewise many, many more flanker fans, Indian AF fans etc. Supposedly the IAF even protested. http://www.expressbuzz.co...Name=pWehHe7IsSU=&SEO= Note the comments from the person involved who originally posted the videos , then took them down. Lots of sillyness, and insecurity shown over this one. No mention of the reported poor performance in the other areas they had, such as being shot down in disproportionate numbers by ground to air simulaters etc. The bottom line seems to be "take it back or it will affect the possibility of future sales" . Kind of like taking your marbles and going home when someone says something you dislike. On the other hand the articles crowing about how great the IAF did against the F15's in India must be correct, eh? I'd hate to be so insecure that a you tube video starts affecting national policy. One that was pretty complimentary actually. Joe So what? your my psychiatrist now? Seriously I'll ask you for your opinion on my mental state when I want it. The fact that you need to bring up about the report on f15's getting kicked in India seems to show you own insecurities based on your opinion dont you think? the reason why India decided to object has its points because the US air force personnel was wrong on many points than 1, and the guy who even posted it on the net most probably dont even know. When some US air force personnel has to explain to them how a TVC works or on which axis it is moving, probably tells you much about what the poster knows. In regards to the Cope India , there were no any leaked videos like this, and the purpose of the guy shooting the video and deciding to release it was plain clear for everyone to see, he wants to get back at those Cope India results, nothing else, and based on the person giving lecture, what happened in India doesn't matter as he himself have said that the Flanker beats the US teen series so its nothing new. In regards of the poster taking it down, he seemed to show a higher ground by saying he took it down himself. Considering it was his camera and him putting it up, its probably super wise for him to take it down or face some form of consequences from US gov themselves. Can you even say that now that Indian gov has taken this matter up with the US, this pilot has not even got a simple warning? Can you? that shows how much his words should be taken seriously. As for India, they did not go and release cope india results, nor leak any videos of it. They dont have the need to go and put down the F 15, the USAF will do it themselves so that they can get more F22's in their inventory.
the mastiff		#9	[-]
Posts: 4346 (Thu, 20-Nov-08 19:36:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	"So what? your my psychiatrist now?" Sure, if you can pay the going rate. If not, It's just another round of, "damn. that video really got under your skin!" I wonder why? Your emotions are really showing now. Can you prove the guy got any warnings? Can you prove it was anything other than it appeared to be? Can you prove this was done to "get back at those cope india results"? As much as I can prove it is just hopefull thinking on your part. Hey, I like the MKi too. Stop being so irrationally paranoid and insecure. There is no hidden agenda in the video. There were a couple mistakes, but that doesn't mean the whole thing is wrong. There reports coming out in magazines from other countries spelling out problems that India had. These were out before the video hit the web in fact. You are so insenced that the americans , whom you despise, had the audacity to say something less than filled with awe about Indias Military that it's just killing you. You aren't the only one either, noting the reaction to the video by Flanker fans around the world. The guy that put up the videos brought it down as he was tired of the harassment, and threats from kids & wannabes accross the web , all acting like petulant kids because he dared put up the video. Not exactly a class reaction from Flanker fans IMO. "As for India, they did not go and release cope india results, nor leak any videos of it." Right! the articles that quoted the IAF pilots m( yes, in addition to US) weren't boastfull at all. It was only the media and the US that was fault, as usual, right? Yeah. Now Flanker, I haven't heard a word about this from him. He seems a bit more confident about this, as he should be. The MKi is still dominant in that part of the world, and so is the IAF. Why sweat the little stuff? Joe ------------------------- "A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
nevidimka		#10	[-]
Posts: 1536 (Thu, 20-Nov-08 23:21:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	The video didnt get under my skin, in fact I actually replied in a light hearten way to the topic, until a smart guy like you came along with your assumptions. The guy clearly had many inaccuracies in his lecture, and you would have taken it wholeheartedly if some of them not been pointed out. but I guess thats who you are, the american lecture form an american source cant be wrong can it? Again you're making assumtions that I despise Americans, etc2. You get along your life making assumptions a lot do you? typical. I dont care what those flanker fans did or what the person who who took the video said, you cant prove it either that he had not have ulterior motives for putting that video on the youtube in the 1st place. Also I do not care what others think of the Indian Air froce, as I'm not Indian. I just got another source regarding this thing, and let me remind you, When I was arguing my point I didnt even know what the things said in this report. The innacuracies I mentioned did not even cover what all of what this guy said. http://livefist.blogspot....ishnu-som-first-hand.html
the mastiff		#11	[-]
Posts: 4347 (Fri, 21-Nov-08 03:07:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Excellent article. Not at all like the one I linked too. When you have real info to report, I suppose it's easier to write. "I dont care what those flanker fans did or what the person who who took the video said, you cant prove it either that he had not have ulterior motives for putting that video on the youtube in the 1st place. Also I do not care what others think of the Indian Air froce, as I'm not Indian. " Why do you think there is an ulterior motive. Why can't it be what it seems. A typical fighter pilot trying to give an informal briefing to a club, which is what the organazation is. I don't get that part. I believe it's just typical knee jerk anti american sentiment, which you've showed since you've been here, Indian or not. If you have had to give unprepared briefings, and reports when busy they often come out exactly as this one did. It looked, and sounded unprepared to me. Too many mistakes for it to be some kind of planned jab at someone IMO. Then there was the attempts at humor. If it was a planned event, dontcha think it would have gone a bit smoother? Joe ------------------------- "A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800 Last Edited By: the mastiff Fri, 21-Nov-08 03:10:32. Edited 1 times.
nevidimka		#12	[-]
Posts: 1537 (Fri, 21-Nov-08 11:45:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	the mastiff wrote: Excellent article. Not at all like the one I linked too. When you have real info to report, I suppose it's easier to write. "I dont care what those flanker fans did or what the person who who took the video said, you cant prove it either that he had not have ulterior motives for putting that video on the youtube in the 1st place. Also I do not care what others think of the Indian Air froce, as I'm not Indian. " Why do you think there is an ulterior motive. Why can't it be what it seems. A typical fighter pilot trying to give an informal briefing to a club, which is what the organazation is. I don't get that part. I believe it's just typical knee jerk anti american sentiment, which you've showed since you've been here, Indian or not. If you have had to give unprepared briefings, and reports when busy they often come out exactly as this one did. It looked, and sounded unprepared to me. Too many mistakes for it to be some kind of planned jab at someone IMO. Then there was the attempts at humor. If it was a planned event, dontcha think it would have gone a bit smoother? Joe Are you criticising the article sarcastically or you acknowledging it? Regarding ulterior motives that I mentioned, I'm sure the Red flag had received Typhoon's, Mirages, and even Rafale now, But I dont see any youtubes on them in briefings? And, maybe now it appears like unprepared briefings to you, but no 1 would know that. Its coming from Red Flag and it looks like a standard post training briefing by a qualified US personnel, and I dont think the presenter was planning that jab to be loaded on internet.
the mastiff		#13	[-]
Posts: 4348 (Fri, 21-Nov-08 19:51:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	No sarcasm there. It's a very good article IMO. More like what I'd expect from a journalist who actually had information, rather than some poor guy having to cobble together stuff he doesn't understand just to make a feel good article for other non informed people who heard the evil US said something bad, but aren't sure what. "And, maybe now it appears like unprepared briefings to you, but no 1 would know that. Its coming from Red Flag and it looks like a standard post training briefing by a qualified US personnel, and I dont think the presenter was planning that jab to be loaded on internet. " You are contradicting yourself so badly there is no point in responding to this. Joe ------------------------- "A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
SPANKYamerican		#14	[-]
Posts: 6201 (Fri, 21-Nov-08 22:28:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	nev, why would they give our pilots a lecture, which is only meant to make us better understand our potential enemy, and purposefully feed them false securities. i think you should get over this one. "For those whos dreams were taken. Here are a few nightmares. This is gonna shine like a diamond in a goat's ass."
nevidimka		#15	[-]
Posts: 1538 (Sun, 23-Nov-08 22:00:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	No, i'm not contradicting myself, but ok, I'll drop it.

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Myth busting the SU-30 etc… ( wargames analysis)

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