Guys, I really think your opinions are not as far off each other as you believe, but the simple unbridgeable truth is that one of you is an atheist and the other a catholic, practicing or no. You won't be able to convince the other otherwise, nor should you; its a matter of faith and that's all there is to it.

The both of you would also agree that if a person for whatever reason thinks that strapping up with some explosives and blowing himself up in a mall would serve some vague greater good, that person deserves a hellfire right up his ass, no questions asked.

Let's put religion aside for now, because true or false, it's irrelevant.
This day and age it seems a vast majority of openly violent fanatics are bred within somewhat 3rd world Muslim countries. Religious leaders spew hatred and play on people's miserable stated and blame it all on the western world. Yes it's religion, and yes it's their socio-economic status. You're both right.


Digging any deeper than that is pointless; one can argue that the crusaders went in the name of Christ and slaughtered everyone who disagreed with them while the Muslims were the most civil people around, another can say back then things were different and some actions were acceptable horrid as they may be, shit gets misinterpreted and manipulated, and that Muslim religion specifically calls for some violent shit and whatever, etc.


On a side note, Mastiff, you can really make your argument better. I know where you're coming from, and I know your argument is that a Muslim who doesn't follow his religion to the word isn't really a Muslim, but if you're not answering the questions simply it just looks like you're avoiding them, even though you think the answer is obvious.

It's true that a lot of the Muslim world is stuck back in the time where killing women and children to make a point was acceptable. That's a fact, Crolly, and I know you're not trying to make an argument against it, nor with the fact religion has a big part in it.

It's also true that there are potentially violent extremists EVERYWHERE, and that's a fact too, and you know it Mastiff. You've met them, I've met them. I'm happy they are on my side and that we have a strong moral authority that keeps those guys in check most of the time, something that doesn't happen in many Muslim countries.


That's really all there is to this. When it goes down to the fundamental beliefs of you two, you guys are just bashing your heads against a wall. I don't define myself in any way, and I believe that anything is possible - literally anything - it's just that based on how much i can see, some things are very, very unlikely. Others trying to prove to me that what they believe in is right is pointless to me, because I've seen their arguments and I've seen what they base their belief on, that that's perfectly ok for them but not for me. For the same reason, I don't try to convince them of what I think, because at the bottom line, we're all humans, and we all really don't KNOW anything. So let me be wrong and go to hell for my sins. it's possible - I just believe it to be *highly* unlikely. Until we find out for sure [or don't, for that matter ], there's no reason we all can't get along.

Unless you listen to *bad* music loudly when I'm trying to get sh*t done. Then it's time to let loose the dogs of war and rain havoc upon thee.